There is an interesting discussion over on Pattern Review around how thorough reviews should be vis a vis how they should (or should not) help less experienced sewers. I haven’t jumped in and the thread is winding down anyway, but one thing I detected from some posts is a sense of entitlement that really irked me. Personally, I don’t feel that an experienced sewer has any obligation to make a review into a sewing lesson. Writing a good review takes effort and no one who posts reviews is getting paid anything for doing it so how much information they provide is a personal decision.
I suspect what is happening here is there are thousands of sewers on PR who are largely self-taught and they view PR as a free educational resource for improving their skills. Which is fine, that’s largely what the internet has been about., however, experienced sewers like me, Ann, Gigi, Pam, Els, Mary Beth and Debbie probably tend to see PR less as a school and more as a stage to express our individual interest in specific areas of sewing. I just bristle at the notion that I owe anyone guidance just because they want to learn sewing; that sounds Darwinian I know, but PR also has good quality and inexpensive on-line sewing classes for all levels. When I see people complaining on the message board that reviews don’t tell them enough I just want to say “Take an on-line class for cryin’ out loud!” PR has classes from top experts (Susan Khalje, Kenneth King, Shannon Gifford, Sarah Veblen etc etc) and in-person instruction from any of these folks is far far more expensive than what they have on PR. Trust me, I’ve taken their in-person classes and I now this is a fact!
Okay rant over now I need to go clean my sewing room
YES!!!!
I wanted to comment on that discussion but thought better of it. I don’t do reviews any more, having gotten tired of some of the comments I received. I commend those who want to learn a new skill. But for heaven’s sake, they should not expect to be spoon fed by others. Get some DVDs, read books, take a class, make samples. We all have limited time, and those of us who sew are generous with our advice. PR and other boards are voluntary. Participants are already giving of their time. Give them a break and take some responsibility for your own learning.
What drives me batty is when people post a question that they could easily figure out on their own (there is a search function on the site for a reason). I get rather impatient when folks think that others have all the time in the world to research or explain something to them, when they could goggle it and get the info themselves. So, I usually surf on by, mumbling under my breath all the while.
I am a somewhat experience sewer and I sometimes post on Patternreview. BUT when I have a problem in the sewing room, I refer to the collection of books and notes from classes. Bu as you discuss it is not always done that way. And unfortunately this behavior is not limited to the sewing community.
I work in Chemistry for a vendor of equipment. I am ALWAYS getting emails/phone calls asking to explain things that are either well described in the manuals or worse, something that a scientist should be looking in the scientific literature to find.
I have collection of chemistry literature. When I get a technical question at work, I usually start the answer with “On page xxx in yyy you will find…”.
I am not an active member of the PR site, but I spend a lot of time on the BurdaStyle site. I post a lot of my creations, including some of my (free of charge) patterns and tutorials over there, and I had a lot of communication going on with other members of the site. Hence, I believe I am experienced enough on this subject to share my comment over here.
I learned to sew all by myself – no lessons, no books, just my spare time and the BWOF patterns, and trial and error method. At the time I started sewing, there were no sewing blogs nor sewing community sites on the internet, so I had to figure out a solution to every problem I used to have.
Now that I have an opportunity to share some of my knowledge (and I do not know everything) I am sometimes really unpleasantly surprised by some members and by their spoiltness. Some people take everything for granted and don’t want to even think about the problem they have in front of themselves. It really drives me nuts. It’s like the more knowledge I share with others, the more criticism I get from them. It sometimes really makes me less motivated to share my work. But then I say to myself – I’m not here for you, I’m here for myself, and ignore silly people…
I know what your going thru. I am new to sewing and sew very very badly but I sew better than i spell thank goodness. I learn by doing. I dont think people should expect you to spoon feed them instructions when someimes you just have to practice and make some mock ups till you get it right because that is why they make seam rippers.
I learn by my mistakes and in a review its just a review not a lesson. If you cant afford lessons get some help, I trade classes or help for cakes, babysitting, and translating skills because I live so far out and what classes I can go to are out of my price range. So I found a lady at my fabric shop begged for some help and when I need help I call or drop an email. I joined my local quilting guild for all the free help you can possibly want. Please there are forums for help too and site like Craftster who give step by step help if you ask.
Thanks
DEE
Bravo! Well said.
I purposely avoided that thread on PR. I do often post questions on PR but they’re usually not asking for an answer. I look at PR as a great venue to discuss with like-minded individuals, so I’m usually looking for opinions from my fellow sewing geeks. I have, on occasion, asked for an answer, but that is usually after exhaustive reading and research and not being able to come up with a reasonable answer on my own. I love PR for what it is and I love the classes, but unless someone offers to “teach” me something, I’m just looking for opinions and thoughts on my dilemmas and projects.
The old saying – give an inch and they want a mile. Over the last year that I’ve been following fashion blogs, I’ve seen several slow down or disappear. Based on some comments made previously, I wondered if it was because of people’s demands. How sad that we can’t be grateful for what we receive instead of demanding more and more. I haven’t figured out PR yet but I’m slowly becoming active on Stitcher’s Guild. What I wanted most was a connection with like minded people.
I’m not very active on PR but more on the german hobbyschneiderin.net sewing site. But it is absolutely the same…
And I don’t mind explaining something when I feel like it and have the time… but if I don’t have I’ll go and tell them to buy a book. (Online classes are not popular in Germany.)
But what is really funny: On the german website there are from time to time people who complain about those “I want everything effortless and for free” guys and then they say they will be off to PR, because people there don’t do that.
Well… people are all the same.
Sing it, sister! I have had some experiences where someone will call me up and expect me to spend hours on the phone with them explaining how to sew certain types of fabrics. I’m happy to help, but if you want me to teach you, I run classes for that, and so do other people. If you don’t want to pay for a class, there are lots of great books and resources out there. I am not obliged to freely disperse knowledge to the masses if I don’t choose to. I also don’t expect anyone to handhold me through processes that are unfamiliar to me, unless I’m in a class and paying for the privilege. If someone chooses to help me voluntarily, then it’s a wonderful gift and I am grateful. But if not? I can usually figure things out for myself, or I can certainly look them up in the myriad resources I have available!
Clearly you struck a nerve Phyllis. Thanks for letting me rant.
A review, sewing class, movie, book, TV show, or whatever is very indivualistic. Every person will have a different response. The one seeking the review has to go through all the avaialable information & make their own decision.
MO, learning is most often trial & error.
Amen, sister! These are the same kind of people who expect me to hem their pants and help them quilt their quilts. For free of course. Because I like to sew, right? They are doing me a favor! I feel your pain
I am one of those beginner-ish people who has learned so much from PR and blogs like yours and those of your Sewing Diva colleagues. I wanted both to say thank you and to add that I have taken a number of the PR online classes and think they are superb.
Wow. Well, clearly, you all have been taken advantage of one too many times. Your experience and knowledge is only for those you choose to give it to, when you want to. And I agree, there are so may ways to find out on ones own how to accomplish a fine, well fitting garment or a beautiful quilt, or other art or craft. And we all have different ways of interpreting information, while we are working on a garment. But we are human, and we are group animals, and we are in this together, to help and nurture each other, and none of us knows everything, and we need help sometimes! It is a compliment when someone asks for help, and it is an art form to also know when to let someone know they are skirting, or crossing the boundaries of generosity. On a forum like PR, the responsibility is yours to answer or not, when you feel you are being taking advantage of, by people you feel are not working the problem out for themselves. Just step away. The level of experience is vast, of the sewers on PR, but perhaps you are also talking about your jobs, or your friends, that are the ones also taking advantage of your skills?
I haven’t as yet visited any of the forums but I agree with you, Phyllis- I have limited time to sew much less teach anyone else. I love Pattern Review- I have gleaned so much already in the month or so since I found it. The tips and techniques are invaluable and the links I have found through there are amazing! I have only had a chance to submit one review and it was limited, due to time, but I do appreciate it when others can give me detailed heads-ups about wonkiness in a particular pattern. Other than that, I know that each pattern will work differently for eash sewist because we are all built differntly and we have different levels of sewing skills. I hope to be able to give a little more as I get back into my sewing routine- I have sewn for over 40 years and I am STILL learning- duh! LOL.
BTW, you (and your sewing skills)rock, Girl!
June
Thank you for writing this. I really bristled at the recent threads, and was really turned off by, like you said, the level of entitlement that was being exhibited. In fact, I have sewn (and loved) the pants in question in the first iteration of that thread, and I really am hesitant to post a review of them because I don’t wish to be the target of the kind of discourteousness that was shown in those recent threads. I have reviewed them on my blog, and received great feedback even from some of the people that were criticized in those threads, but I don’t know that I will get over what I saw out there in the discussion boards any time soon. I love that fantastic, incredibly skilled sewers are out there on PR and I think it is wonderful that they are willing to answer questions when I have pored over the books, checked the blogs and tutorials and STILL don’t understand how to do something. On the other hand, no one owes me that…they should do it because of their own interests and willingness to assist, not because anyone “owes” me that. I also am happy when a question is asked that I know the answer to, but I was really turned off by the recent threads implying that every pattern should be picked to pieces, and if we (as reviewers) do not, then we are somehow complicit in discouraging beginners. Beginners, get a pal that sews. Take a class. Buy some books, or check them out of the library. PR is a community for sharing information, it’s not a college.
I haven’t been following that thread. Good thing too or I’d be just as annoyed. I used to be much more generous with my time on PR, but I get tired of seeing questions that could be easily found in any number of books. I agree with Michelle, go to the library, take a class but don’t expect me to be your teacher.
I spend very little time on the PR message boards and when I hear (read) about threads like this, I’m amazed at how mean-spirited some of the members are. Complaining because a review doesn’t teach you enough? Give me a break.
I thought that thread really changed topics from start to finish – initially someone was complaining about something she found while making something that other reviews of that pattern didn’t mention. Then people started talking about what they found most useful when reading reviews (relevant, I thought), but then it veered down the “we must all cater to beginners at all times” path.
I couldn’t agree more with Shannon – I’ve learned loads from PR and other online sources, both paid and free, but I don’t take it all for granted, and I don’t ask questions before I’ve had an attempt to answer them on my own, whether it’s a google search or a look through my sewing books or asking someone in person.
Yes, people take for granted the time and effort we put into even bothering to write a review or work on our blogs.
Thank you for addressing this issue. Like some of you I have been with PR since the beginning and the change is disheartening. I did post on the thread and response that I got made me sorry that I did. I think that people forget that a review is a personal experience with a pattern. When you post a review, you are putting someone of yourself out there. It is personal and the criticism and sense of entitlement is a turnoff.
I think that people tend to forget that sewing is an investment of time, energy, resources and money. If sewing is truly a skill/hobby that someone wants to participate in then they need to be will to invest in it. I have a nice size library courtesty of many recommendations. I take on-line classes so I can learn more. I have a large list of links to sewing resources so the knowledge is there if you are willing to invest the time that it takes to develop your resources.
I never take for granted the time and effort that anyone puts in a review or blog. I’m thankful that the world of seing has continued to grow through the internet.
I didn’t follow this thread on PR, but mostly I agree that the review is not a sewing lesson, it’s someone’s opinion on a pattern and how it worked for them. However, not everyone has ready access to sewing information. I put my full thoughts on my blog, as it was getting way too long for here.
I did try and respond on some of those threads but was basically told I had a problem… hunh? I am seriously reconsidering ever writing a review again. It takes a lot of time and effort and I was blown away by the meaness on those threads. Why review a pattern not aimed for a beginner to a beginner level???? OK I agree with the comments above and am glad I am not alone in feeling this way.
I’ve been following those new threads and I agree people can have a strong sense of entitlement when it is not warranted.
As a beginner, I really look to reviews as a source of information for basic construction techniques. Sometimes, I don’t even know the correct terminology to look up an issue I might be having in a book or on PR. I try to be as courteous as possible and try not to ask elementary questions without trying to find an answer on my own. I recently started a thread asking for pants recommendations because I couldn’t find a thread that addressed the issues I am having with making pants. And oddly enough, the search function for pants on PR didn’t turn up all that many compared to what comes up for other articles of clothes. I took this to mean that people maybe tend to make the same pants over and over, so often that maybe they see no particular reason to write a review each time. I have done this myself with a few patterns I’ve used many times.
If someone wants to answer a question, I for one am very grateful. If not, then I assume they do when some thread comes up that I’m not interested in…scroll, scroll, scroll.
Anyway, I really appreciate when someone makes an effort to help me with my issues but I don’t expect it. Maybe there needs to be some community standards on PR for such things.
Of course, but it’s the presence of good leaders who make or break a community.
Yes, I am largely self-taught, and I view PR as a free educational resource for improving my skills. No, I don’t believe that the more experienced sewers owe me or anyone else their guidance for any reason.
However, I have not been pleased with my experiences at the site when I have visited in the recent past. I have found most of the pattern reviews mediocre or uninformative. When I post questions that I can’t answer from my collection of sewing books, I have received answers from people who don’t know what they are talking about. This experience does not encourage me to come back or contribute my expertise to the site.
And so I spend my time contributing freely to another site where many people see their posts as an opportunity to teach others, and people are generous in sharing their knowledge. Because that’s what I want to get, and that’s what I want to give.
Hello , All I can say is that I have learned alot from blogs and have been inspired to do more sewing than before . Partly that has been because so many of you have been generous and really so giving in your time and energy in writing grreat blogs . I work in the health industry and also do work with foster children . I soon worked out that doing anything because you want people to be grateful and appreciative will end in dissapointment. When you come to this realization you can either stop and pull back and nurse your anger or you can keep doing it but also stand up for yourself , look after yourself and say “no ” when it all gets too much . The world needs more of the latter in my opinion.
I think that often people often lack the self confidence to do it on their own and so become dependent rather than standing on their own 2 feet.I know I have been guilty of that on the odd occasion.
I am grateful for every review. I am self-thought and wouldn’t call myself experienced, but I think a pattern review doesn’t need to be sewing lesson. I like to look at the clothes on normal people with different figures to find out if it would work on me. I appreciate if somebody tipps me off if the pattern runs large or small and where there may be problems, or if something is unexpectedly difficult. I rather have a lot of short reviews as no review at at all, because it is too much work. And a big thank you to all of you who bother to make the reviews, its appreciated.
Wow. I guess I don’t spend enough time on PR. This is shocking to me.
I just want to say that I appreciate all of the sewing blogs that I’ve found online, present company included of course! I have learned a lot from the freely given tips and found a lot of inspiration. Inspiration that led me to find resources to teach myself more. I can’t imagine why anyone would expect anything more than that from people who were spending their precious free time providing a free service.
Thank you all for what you do!
Oh, I hope this doesn’t drive you and others away from PR! It is a tremendous resource, and the bigger it gets, the more unwieldy and subject to abuse. Drat.
I have never viewed it as a free resource. As soon as I read a few reviews, I paid for membership, and have been doing so ever since. I’ve taken every Shannon Gifford class, most of Sarah Veblen’s (taking 2 now), a couple with Kenneth King, and just finished the LBD class with Susan Khalje.
You’re right, incredible sewing education opportunities. These teachers are so generous with their time and knowledge, and the time is much better spent with them than floundering around on one’s own, even if you do (and I do) have and read all of Claire Shaeffer’s books. And a few by Adele Margolis.
I hope to take Susan Khalje’s French Jacket and Couture classes this year. I wouldn’t even know about these if not for PR.
People who are looking for free advice are missing the best part of PR.
And I love the reviews for all the reason “me” (not me-me, but “me” two reviews above) listed.
Regards,
Elle
AMEN. I didn’t follow that thread to its conclusion, and it sounds like that was a good thing. There is so much to like about the internet & sites like PR, but it’s becoming less rewarding all the time. I’m astounded at some people’s attitudes. Aside from the nastiness, I’m always dismayed at the “let’s bombard them with e-mails and make them do things our way” plots.
Mostly I view PR as a way to share what I’m making with my PR friends. I still review, and I look over the archived reviews before sewing something new – but I hardly ever post on the discussion boards anymore. Pity, because I used to enjoy it so much.
I am amazed that PR still exists. I remember when Deepika first developed the site and was using free opportunites on already developed sewing sites to freely market it, mostly on the defunct sewingworld.com. I sent her a private message that I objected to that behavior because I believed it would eventually be a for-profit enterprise. She responded that was not her intention. Then I discovered her husband posting on hi-tech sites about how to charge people to subscribe, when the subscribers will be providing the content. I posted the husband’s posts on PR. There was a huge reaction.
I would never spend one minute of time writing a review and posting it to a place that someone else will profit. I much prefer blogs like this one.
First, thanks SEW ROGUE, for the PR “behind the scenes” info…interesting.
Secondly…I provide a lot of sewing instruction on my blog, based on the the amount of free time I have to do so. I also do reviews of patterns there. I rarely post a review on PR because like Sew Rogue (above) I avoid writing a review and posting it to a place where someone profits.
No one has to pay anything to read my opinions of a pattern, etc. And likewise I enjoy blogs like this one and the other many excellent blogs that experienced sewists take the time to author.
Oh yeah! I am a new’ish sewer and couldn’t agree more with you. I take lessons when I can and am so grateful to the wonderful folk out there with blogs like this, and the many more per the comments above, where you lovely much more skilled & experienced people provide information and tips etc. So, thank you for the post and to you all out there in the blogging world.